Welcome to episode 140 of the Healthprener podcast. Today we’re going to discuss friendly marketing with David White. What is “friendly marketing,” you say? Does there exist such a thing? The answer is yes, and there’s no one better than David to break it down for us.

David hosts a podcast called The Business of Health Show and helps people start successful wellness businesses online. He is going to use The Wizard of Oz as an analogy to illustrate simple and effective friendly marketing that you can use in your business.

People are often on an emotional journey when they’re trying to get healthy, so the delivery method of your message is key. Like Dorothy, your clients want to get to their desired destination – but they need useful (but incomplete) tools to do so. Click your red slippers and tune in to learn why the information must be incomplete and to get some awesome tips for improving your marketing strategy.

In this episode David and I discuss:

  • His three-part journey to where he is now.
  • Tim Ferriss, Frank Kern, and the best ways to learn new things.
  • The sucky things about unfriendly marketing.
  • Examples of friendly marketing.
  • A tip specifically for wellness experts.
  • How David helps Healthpreneurs.


3:00 – 7:30 – David’s journey and what prompted him to do what he does

7:30 – 11:30 – Influencers and learning in David’s life

11:30 – 21:30 – Marketing when it’s done right: Friendly vs. unfriendly marketing

22:00 – 33:00 – Understanding your audience’s circumstances and addressing them; an analogy

33:00 – 39:00 – What Dorothy needs for her journey so she can get what she wants

39:00 – 49:00 – Why we are the trusted pilot, not the wizard, and how David helps his clients


What does the Wizard of Oz have to do with your business? Well, our guest today, David White is going to share exactly what he has to do with helping you grow your business. And more importantly how to market in a friendly manner, so you don’t come across like a slimy salesy douche bag, because no one likes feeling like that, right? No one likes putting out marketing or general material that makes them feel that way or makes their business look all salesy. Especially as health and fitness wellness entrepreneurs, we come from a heart centered place. We want to serve people, we want to give, give, give. And sometimes we have a tough time selling. And not that there’s nothing wrong with selling, but ideally if it’s done in a friendlier manner.

So, David is going to walk us through what friendly marketing is. And he’s going to share an amazing analogy of the Wizard of Oz that is going to make your understanding of marketing so much more effective and simple. It’s really, really, good. So, he’s going to share that in this interview. And I have to say, I was on David’s podcast about a week before we recorded this, and he’s a legit dude. He’s got an amazing podcast called the Business of Health Show. Check it out on iTunes.

He’s one of the few that actually does the research on his guests ahead of time, so his questions are really in depth. And he does a really good job on his podcast.  I’m excited to return the favor and have him here on this show. And what’s nice is that he’s not just teaching other health entrepreneurs and fitness business owners on how to build their business online, he actually had a successful business to begin with. So, he’s one of those guys that has success in his health and business online and now he’s sharing what he knows and his wisdom with others to be able to do the same. So, without any further ado, let’s welcome David White on to the show and let’s have some fun.

David, what’s up my friend. Welcome to the Healthpreneur Podcast.

David:                                    Hey, man. Thanks so much for having me on.

Yuri:                                       It’s great to have you here. I think you’re the second Aussie we’ve had on the show.

David                                     Who was the first? I got to ask that one.

Yuri:                                       Aidan Darcy.

David                                     I haven’t heard of him. Was he amazing.

Yuri:                                       Yes, he’s a pretty good dude, for sure. Doing some pretty cool stuff on the online fitness base and it’s amazing how many people in online fitness are in Australia. It just seems like I see them all over the place, it’s pretty awesome.

David                                     Wow, that’s cool.

Yuri:                                       Yeah.

David                                     I didn’t know that, but that’s good to know.

Yuri:                                       Yeah. All right. So, let’s jump into this. Let’s talk about friendly marketing today because it’s something that we both share in common. It’s something you’re very passionate about. Before we jump into that,  give our listeners a sense of how you got here because I think your journey’s pretty cool. You’ve had some really cool epiphanies along the way. But give us the Cliff Notes of how you went from trainer to now being somebody who helps other trainers build their online presences.


David’s three-part journey to where he is now

David:                                     Well, my journey’s kind of a three parter.  I spend a huge, unfair amount of my time, pretty much from when I was born until I was about 18, being really, really sick. My school attendance record was like 70%. I never had any real health conditions but I used to get these stupid migraines, and they were so painful. I don’t know if you’ve ever had a headache so bad that you would lose your vision for like 30 hours. But that was my reality as a child. And it led to some really unhealthy habits funnily enough, because I had all these food sensitivities and all this kind of weird stuff. I wasn’t allowed to eat chocolate until I was 16 because I was intolerant to it.

And you can imagine telling a 16 year old, “Hey, you can start eating chocolate now. And it’s totally fine. In fact, we encourage you because you’ve missed out for 16 years.”

Yuri:                                       Ta-da.

David:                                   Didn’t really do any good stuff for my eating habits.  When I realized that I could start eating, drinking Coke, eating chocolate, and it wouldn’t wreck me for 30 hours, I got into it. I was into that stuff. And then I left school and I noticed these people walking around, these females and I was like, “Man, I’m really interested in the opposite sex.” And predictably my bad eating habits hadn’t really helped me out there. Once I’ve gotten over these migraines, I started going to the gym because that’s where everyone who was able to function as a normal human, which I now was able to do, was doing.

I was studying business at university and I thought, “Man, this is kind of boring. What about if I just worked in the gym all the time?” So, I did. Got a job, started as a trainer. And patted along for awhile doing reasonably well and at one point I got disturbed which is something we’ll talk about later on in this show. But I looked around and I was seeing all these other people who I was learning from online, who were kind of just maybe doing really different stuff. As wellness experts, we’re all really committed to our craft. And we all really care about what we do. And I was just like everyone who listens to this show and I thought, “Man, it must be so amazing to be able to go to work or be at home and do work and reach … like 10,000 people, like 50,000 people. 100,000 people with what you say and be paid for what you really deserve for sharing that information. Rather than seeing eight people in a day. That must be amazing.”

I spent a lot of time doing personal development stuff, I was bit of a go-getter. I just lept in, I had no idea. I emailed this one guy who I knew who was doing really well. Basically, spammed him, like emailed him about 15 times, “Man, can you teach me how you’re doing this? Hey, I don’t know if you saw my last email, will you teach me how to do this? And I’ll send this guy one more email.” And he responded to it and he started coaching me on this sort of stuff. And I started teaching online about how to get healthy.

Yuri:                                       That’s awesome. So cool, I love the lessons of persistence because so many people give up after one email. “Oh my god, they didn’t get back to me, they hate me.” But we’ve had a few people on the show where there’s a common theme of just keep persisting. It’s almost like they’re testing to see if you have what it takes to keep going. So, that’s pretty awesome. Speaking of successful people, I know you’re a fan of Zig Ziglar and his whole philosophy of helping others get what they want before you can get what you want. Who are some of your initial influencers as you starting to develop your chops business wise? What are some of the big influences in your life?


Tim Ferriss, Frank Kern, and the best ways to learn new things

David:                                   So, I read Tim Ferriss’s book, The Four Hour Work Week. Which is full of a lot of stuff that I don’t agree with but it kind of changed my mindset, and all the ideas that were in there.

And I read this other amazing book. I can’t recommend this book highly enough but it was by a guy called MJ DeMarco, called the Millionaire Fastlane. And for me, when I read that I was like …

Yuri:                                       That’s such a good book.

David:                                   I don’t why more people haven’t read it. It’s unbelievable. And when I got my hands on this thing and I read it, I had to leap straight in.

I had heard of this guy called Frank Kern. Dude didn’t have a website, he still doesn’t really have a website now. He just puts together marketing campaigns that will help people and then he offered some expensive products and that kind of stuff.  I bought one that was way too advanced for me, but I was like, “Man, I’m going to figure this stuff out.”

I’ve spent years as a wellness expert, really not knowing what I’m doing. Because when you’re an 18 year old kid and you get a qualification that says you can tell people what to do in the gym and people come up to you and they’re like, “Hey, my back hurts a lot when I try to lift this thing, what am I supposed to do?” And you’re like, “Man, I’m really sorry to hear that. I have to say I’ve got no idea.” It freaks you out and you have to figure stuff out. Anyone that I could find, I would learn from them, I would model them, I would watch people who were doing really well in our space, and I would … Not copy, but I would try and reverse engineer what it was that they were doing and try to figure out why does this kind of stuff work?

And I think that the best education you’ll get is from doing stuff. The next best education you’ll ever get is from like trying to deconstruct how people do stuff really well, and then there’s the books and the courses, and that sort of stuff too.

Yuri:                                       It’s so funny because everyone … In a typical product launch world, right? If people opting in, thousands upon thousands of people, and then they buy the thing. But I don’t think a lot of them realize that they’re in the thing that they’re buying. So, if they just observed the process by which they’re being sold to, that is such a great education. And I agree with you that Frank Kern … It’s actually funny, I’ve got a throw back Thursday shout out to Frank Kern on my Instagram page. Even to this day, I think he’s one of the few people that I really respect in the marketing space because he’s just … He’s just on a different planet, but in a good way.

So, guys, if you’re listening to this, Frank Kern, a great example of how to do marketing in a friendly manner. And let’s talk about that, let’s segway into what is friendly marketing? What was the moments when you’re like, “Yeah, this is a thing versus unfriendly marketing.” And how did this all come together for you?


Marketing when it’s done right: Friendly vs. unfriendly marketing

David:                                   This topic is like a four parter, Yuri.  I want to talk about what it looks like when it’s done really well. And what it looks like when marketing’s done really badly. I want to build clarity around what marketing is and then I want to tell a story. And lastly, I want to give the listeners a really direct shot of confidence because I think a lot of things that we all struggle with is, “I’m so well-trained in health, I don’t think any other industry pays as much attention to professional development like the health industry.” So, it’s hard and try market something that you know really works but you don’t know how to talk about it or how to present it or do it justice.


The sucky things about unfriendly marketing

We all see ads on Facebook. We’re all exposed to advertising campaigns that just suck.  I hate it when people show up on my Facebook feed and they’re like, “I’m awesome, you should buy my thing.” And I think intuitively we all know that you can’t just put out a marketing message that says, “I exist, you should buy from me. You should give me money.” Or, “I look like this, you should give me money.” Or, “Here’s what my customers, my clients have to say about me, you should give me money.”

I think that sucks, man. That really is awful stuff. That’s really unfriendly marketing because it just turns us off. That’s why no one goes on Facebook anymore. It’s because of all that unfriendly marketing.


Examples of friendly marketing

But it’s hard when you’re starting out a business and you don’t know what else to do other than say, “I’ve made this thing, do you want to buy it?” It’s hard. So, what does it look like when marketing’s done really well and when it’s friendly? There are a few people who I know who have done friendly marketing really well. So, first one that comes to mind is Marie Forleo. I’m not in Marie’s customer base. I like her YouTube Channel, but she’s done this to me. Zig Ziglar had done this to me. Frank Kern has done this to me and Brendon Burchard has done marketing to me.

So, let’s say I get one day, like if Zig Ziglar was still alive, I get a phone call one day from Zig and he says to me, “Hey, what? You idiot.  You don’t look like a really successful guy. And I’ve made this product called Over the Top and it’s about how to get successful. You look like you really need some help with that, so you should go and buy from me or you’re stupid.”  I be like, “Okay, where’s the order form?” The sales pitch literally would not matter, it would not matter what this guy said to me, I just have this relationship with him, this bond with him. And I believe in what he does so much, that I go and buy even if he was really, really abusive and uncool about it. And I think that’s what we all want.

Like who wants to have to work really, really hard for a sale? Who wants to learn how to give an amazing speech on a video or write a killer … Spend the week that it takes to write a really good sales letter. Who wants that kind of stuff? We just want people around us who we say, “Look, I’ve got this thing if you want this kind of result. I think it’ll really help you.” And people are, “Let’s go and do it.” “All right, send me to the order form, I want that.” That’s what in my opinion is what friendly marketing is.

Yuri:                                       Yeah. It’s really about building that what I call a KLT -that know, like and trust. I spoke to a lady yesterday —  Once a year for a day or two I do these 10 minute speed consults for free.  I spoke with a lady yesterday who says, “This is weird because I listen to you in the bathtub.” She listens to the podcast, and reads all my stuff, and it’s like … It’s so cool when you can realize that, “Wow, some people just really consume your stuff.” And by the time you talk with them, it’s like they know you. And there’s just so much less resistance in those cases.

For people that are building their business, friendly marketing, whether it’s the form of content or however else that might be, how does somebody balance that with the need to make money? Because you and I both know, it does take time to build a following, it takes time to build that platform. And a lot of people struggle because they’re like, “Okay, I’m putting out free contents. I’ve got a podcast, or I’m doing this thing and no one is buying.” Or, “I’m not making any money.” How do you balance the two so people don’t go off the deep end?


Understanding your audience’s circumstances and addressing them; an analogy

David:                                   Good question, I really like that question. To do marketing properly, which marketing has to help people. You can’t just say buy from me now. Marketing has to help people but it also has to lead to a sale because the people who get the best results are your customers. No one will convince of anything other than this. Happy dabblers who listen to your podcast every now and again, even people who religiously watch your YouTube videos will never get the best results or the kind of results that your customers will. So, we need to get the sale which means we need to understand that not everyone is ready to buy from us now.

Yuri, I’d love to hear what your definition of marketing is. Ignoring like the friendly part of it.

Yuri:                                       So, I’ve got two definitions. Number one, is marketing is a process of building relationships with people who don’t know you. To the point where they know, like, and can trust you, so that selling becomes almost unnecessary.

David:                                   Perfect, like you. Let’s end the show here, you just nailed it.

Yuri:                                       It sounds like I just read that. I wrote that statement down years ago and I just kept repeating it to myself and it’s like verbatim now, no problem. So, that’s my first definition. The second definition of marketing which ties in with that is sharing more of what you believe, more than what you know. Because really marketing in my opinion is really attracting people who get you versus people who don’t. And it’s really just kind of a repelling/attracting game. So, sharing your beliefs, not just like the 101 ways to use coconut oil.

David:                                   I know you get this kind of stuff and I’m actually going to use you as an example shortly. I love that first definition that you gave and to do marketing properly, you need to know what a market is. So, whether you are helping people who have digestive problems or who’ve had their thyroid cut out or who worry about what their skin looks like or who have imbalanced hormones, or need to lose weight, or whatever. Your market is anyone who could or should buy from you. So, that could be for some listeners to this show, an enormous amount of people. And if we look at your market, and this is something I’ve learned from Chet Holmes who was an amazing guy. I wish he was still around.

He would say that only about 3% of people in your market are actually buying right now. They’re in the buying process. And this can change … When people who turn 40 are much more likely to buy certain things around New Years, people are buying more … So, generally speaking about 3% of your market is buying right now. So, imagine this is a pyramid and I know that’s the worst word to use when you’re talking about marketing but whatever.

Yuri:                                       That’s a good opportunity for you.

David:                                   Wait until you hear my plug at the end of this episode. We’ll talk about pyramids then. But at the tip of this pyramid, we’ve got 3% of people who are buying right now. And at the bottom of your pyramid, about 30% of the people who could or should get their hands on your product and  just aren’t.  They’re just never going to buy and that’s fine. Maybe they won’t buy from you because you’re a male and they don’t want to learn about digestion from a male, they want to learn about it from a female. Maybe you’re a female and they want … Any number of reasons. Maybe they just literally don’t care enough.

Maybe they’ve got a sick spouse and it’s more important for them to worry about that then going to the gym or anything like that. That doesn’t matter. 30% are never going to buy from you. Above that on the pyramid, we have 30% of people who think they’re not thinking about buying from you, above them we have 30% of people who just aren’t really thinking about it at all. So, the difference between those two levels as someone who might … They’re 30% who think they’re not thinking about it, it might be someone who says, “Well, I don’t have time to go to the gym 10 hours a week to try and lose weight because I’m busy at work.” We know that’s not true, there’s stuff you can do to lose weight that doesn’t take 10 hours a week, but they think they’re not thinking about it.

And then the last level, just below that 3% is 7% of people who are thinking about buying. They’re not actually buying right now, they’re thinking about it. So, really crappy marketing treats everyone in this pyramid like they’re ready to … They’re actually trying to buy stuff right now.

Good marketing, really good marketing understands that some people are thinking about buying, some people aren’t thinking about buying. And some people think they’re not a good match to be buying right now. And it tries to move people up that pyramid. That’s really good marketing.

Friendly marketing is understanding that, hey, for people who have weight problems or who have been told you’ve got this health condition. Or, who really struggle with what they’re trying to achieve. Maybe they’ve been trying to do something about it for years, that’s emotional for all of us. And we’re going to talk about that in just a second. Having a health problem is an emotional thing. And with your marketing, you’re like, yeah, you can ball people. You can make them feel inadequate. You can take their confidence away from them. You can make them feel like I’m the only person in the world who’s got this problem, everyone else has it figured out. All you can make them feel like, “Hey, I got this. I understand what the problem is. I have confidence and competence. I know this is something that I can deal with.

Friendly marketing is moving the people up the pyramid. While understanding that that’s a very emotional journey for someone to go along. Really, really emotional.

Yuri:                                       Yeah, I love that. That’s such a great visual for people to get. And guys. Just to rewind and listen to that again, even write that pyramid down with those percentages, what you’re saying David is that … There’s always going to be people who are not ready to buy. So, friendly marketing, if you understand that is being okay with the fact that … I’m just going to add value of these people’s lives and eventually when they’re ready, I’ll be top of mind, and they’ll most likely do business with me if that’s a good fit for them. Instead of being … All right, they didn’t buy right away, screw them, let’s just spam them with a bunch of promotions and offers. So, I love that analogy, so good. So, let’s keep going. What’s the next points? You had four points, that’s the second one.

David:                                   The third part of this is a really odd story because I wanted to … Man, this is the third time I’ve given this presentation and I tried really hard when I was coming up with it too. Talk about it in a way that people would understand. And I know you’re a stories guy, Yuri.  I know you like stories. Your audience has experienced emotionally with trying to get away from something that they don’t like about their health to a reality that they really enjoy, where they are vibrant. And they’re enjoying all the good things that wellness can give them. It’s predictable and linear.

Now, you said a second ago, we need to be there to nurture the relationship when they’re ready to buy. For some people, their journey’s going to be 30 minutes. For some people, it’s going to be like a year and a half. And that’s totally okay. But, as a friendly marketer, you need to understand that there are four particular circumstances that everyone in your audience will find themselves in. And as a friendly marketer, you have four things that you need to do for people in each one of those situations to really help them out emotionally, help them out with the efforts they’re trying to make to change their health, and to make those sales. Because without making sales, well, we’ll talk about that in just a second. But the results don’t come, unless you can make the sale.


What Dorothy needs for her journey so she can get what she wants

So, the story is one that everyone has heard before and I picked this one because it ties up really well, and because I’ll know you’ll remember it. And it’s about this little girl called, Dorothy, who one day just like everyone in your audience gets really disturbed. Her house gets caught up by a hurricane or a tornado, I don’t know what it was, who cares.

Yuri:                                       A tornado, yeah.

David:                                   Her house gets caught up by a tornado and she gets taken away to this foreign land where nothing’s familiar. She’s lost and confused. She has no idea what the heck’s going on and she’s landed in Munchkin land. And obviously I’m talking about Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz. but for anyone who’s ever had a health problem, you remember this moment of being disturbed. So, Yuri, I know your moment was when you came home from soccer training one day and exhausted. More exhausted than you should’ve been. And you had a shower and you came out and you were toweling off your hair, and your eyebrows fell out, right? That was the moment that disturbed you, wasn’t it?

Yuri:                                       Yeah, that was definitely, for sure.

David:                                   So, for you, Yuri, and for me when this happened to me when I was overweight and interested in girls.  I was like, “I got to do something about this weight problem I have.” I asked this really attractive girl out and she kind of laughed at me, she was like, “Really?” I was like, “Crap, all right. I got to lose this weight … I’ve got to change this.” The first situation that everyone in your audience find themselves in is they get disturbed and they look around and just like Dorothy, they don’t recognize anything. So, if a Dorothy, everything’s in color now, it used to be in CPO, really weird. There are all these tiny little people, the Munchkins running around. She doesn’t know what’s going on and she has this massive problem.

She has this green witch in her face problem. Whether it is a green witch or a high profile … Like a diagnosis of hyperthyroidism or this big belly, or someone saying you need to do something about your cholesterol or else you’re going to die. They have this massive problem and they’re like, situation number one, “How did I get here?” So, we all kind of know this stuff. Like I knew when I was overweight that I’m not supposed to drink a liter and a half of Coca Cola every day. I kind of get that’s not right, but I don’t really understand what led me to this place. So, at this point, and this is really important, your audience is far more interested in information about them then they are about you.

So, when people first meet you, I don’t really think you need to talk about yourself at all. They want to know about them. So, Dorothy meets this guardian angel who does friendly marketing to her. And she, her role, the Good Witch of the North. She fills the role of the friendly marketer so well. What she does for Dorothy is she assigns the blame and she builds awareness around the problem. So, she says, “Look, Dorothy. Your house fell down from the sky and crushed that witch’s sister. And now she wants to kill you for those shoes that are on your feet.”

So, Dorothy’s, “Okay, I understand this problem.” If someone had come along to me when I was overweight and been like, “Man, your metabolism is so slow.” I be like, “Okay, I understand now what I need to correct about this so I can do something about it.” Because we all know that, “I should sleep more. I need to drink more water or whatever.” Awareness and clarity around the problem is so huge. So, for you, Yuri, what was the awareness that you needed when your hair started falling out, just to make you not freak out quite so much.

Yuri:                                       It was probably going to the doctor to figure out what the diagnosis was.

David:                                   And being told it’s your immune system, right?

Yuri:                                       Yes, exactly.

David:                                   So, when you hear something like that, this massive problem that’s disturbed your entire life, it’s only about your immune system. It’s okay. I mean, it’s not okay but it’s less of a challenge, you know what I mean?

Yuri:                                       Yeah.

David:                                   So, that’s what we need to do first and foremost for our audience. And once we’ve done that, the next question that people are going to have, the next question that Dorothy has in this story is, “All right, what can I possibly do about this?” So, the Good Witch of the North fulfills the role of a marketer, a friendly marketer once again by saying, “Listen, there is this promise land and it’s called Oz. if you go there, you can find your way home. You can get everything you want if you go to Oz.”

So, depending on what you do as a wellness expert, your role is to explain this promise land. And that might be ketosis, it might be balancing your hormones, it might be speeding up your metabolism. It might be removing all environmental factors that excite your immune system, in your instance, Yuri. Whatever it is, you need to explain to people, “Look, here’s what you do about this. You need to get yourself to Oz. You need to balance your hormones out. You need to calm down your immune system. You need to kill off all these bad bugs in your digestive system. You have to do this to your metabolism.” Whatever it is that you think that people need to do, you got to go out there and you have to tell them, right?

Yuri:                                       That’s good. I like where this is going. So, we start off with awareness. So, once people are aware with the problem, they start looking at, “All right, I’m going to gather some information.” They start becoming aware of possible solutions and we keep going. What’s next?

David:                                   I would love to hear your thoughts on this because you may disagree with me but one thing that I don’t really think matters in marketing, is talking about why people want to get home, right? Why they want to get back to Kansas. So, we talk about this thing, like a faster metabolism or ketosis. And that’s like Oz. and having a fast metabolism, losing weight, in our example, making more money, that’s just like a stepping stone to get what we really want. Like Dorothy doesn’t want to get to Oz. People don’t really care about ketosis, they don’t really care about their metabolism. They just want the end result.

So, I’d encourage the audience to think about when you talk about the promise land, this thing that you make with their health, that’s going to deliver the result that they want, what is that? Because of the example of making money, no one … Really, no one cares about making money. None of us care about making more sales. We care about is freedom, we care about choice, and we care about being able to live a life the way that we want. If you had no money but you had total freedom, that’s totally what we’re looking for.

But what I haven’t mentioned so far, is why Dorothy wants to get home. I didn’t say because she has a wedding to get to. I didn’t say because it’s summer in Kansas now and she wants to go and lie by the beach. I didn’t say it’s because her little dog Toto is enrolled in a dog fighting competition that she has to meet. I don’t think that it’s up to us to second guess why our audience needs to be there. And this is why you’ll never see someone being like, “You should buy my course about how to make money online, so you can buy a $20,000 watch.”

Yuri:                                       Unless you know them intimately and that’s their driving force. But I think what you’re getting at and I think why this is so important is that a lot of … Especially health experts were very guilty of this because as you mentioned earlier, we’re in a professional, we’re certifications, and all that stuff is so important. So, we spend so much time sharing about all this shit that no one cares about. Who cares how your physiology works, just show me the damn path to fixing the problem. But I think the only time really sharing the wise is important, is getting them connected to why this matters that they solve it now.

For instance, with Dorothy, she needs to be connected to the fact that, “Listen, if you don’t solve this now, some really bad stuff is going to happen.” And reminding people that if they don’t take action, here are the consequences. But if you do take action, here’s this beautiful future that lies in front of you.

David:                                   The stakes are high.

Yuri:                                       Yeah.


Why we are the trusted pilot, not the wizard, and how David helps his clients

David:                                   It’s not like, “Hey, you could buy an air conditioner so you’re not going to be that sweaty this summer.” It’s like, “Hey, this is your body.” And I agree. That if you’re going to do marketing type stuff in any area of this, like traditional marketing stuff, people already know that their health is important to them. You can remind them about that I agree, that’s a really good point.

So, Dorothy knows the problem now. She knows what she needs to do about it, what she needs to achieve. Now, what is Dorothy going to want to do? She is going to want to start walking down that yellow brick road and doing things by herself. She’s going to say, “How can I get this to work for me?” And as she goes along this path, she’s given … She’s given a bunch of really useful but incomplete tools. So, she meets a scarecrow without a brain, she meets a lion without courage. Man, I should’ve studied this before I started. And then she meets a tin man without a heart. And this, this is your content. Your podcast, your Facebook lives, your blog, your YouTube. I say these are useful and incomplete tools because until you make a sale, nothing you can do is going to change this persons life.

So, your role as a marketer here is to pummel your audience with as many useful and incomplete tools as possible. And it’s okay if these tools are eventually going to be part of this system that you’ll offer to them, but here Dorothy wants to do some stuff herself or at the very least she wants to visualize herself doing it. And know what a workout at the gym going to look like for me. Does it go for two and a half hours and I’m going to be wrecked for the rest of the day or is it 35 minutes and I can handle it. You can show them in a video, “Hey, this workout’s 35 minutes. She may not go and do it, but she knows now that is something she can manage.

Yuri:                                       Yeah.

David:                                   So, your role as a marketer is to provide useful but incomplete tools.

Yuri:                                       I love that analogy. I just want to jump in. I love that analogy, like the tin man, the heart, the lion and the scarecrow as pieces of content. It’s so good, and useful but incomplete. Guys, you have to understand that you can never giveaway everything in your content because it’s actual disservice to people because they’re not going to figure it out on their own. Anyways, keep going, this is good.

David:                                   Yeah, one thing at a time. One thing. That’s all Dorothy needs. She doesn’t need to meet 50,000 different characters. She just needs some stuff to keep her moving or at the very least give her a little bit more clarity on how to get through this journey.

So, now we move on. Next, and this is kind of sad because you can’t really do anything about this for your Dorothy’s out there. She’s going to start walking down that yellow brick road by herself. And things are kind of … They’re going to go wrong. So, she is equipped with some useful but incomplete tools. She knows where she’s going, she knows what she’s fighting against, but she faces challenge, obstacle, and hardship. So, Dorothy in the movie, she comes across this forest of trees that throws apples at her. and she gets taken away with her little dog by the flying monkeys. And she gets drugged by the Wicked Witch of the West in the poppy field. Which is pretty messed up because she’s like 14 years old.

Yuri:                                       Seriously.

David:                                   Pretty uncalled. Yeah. And then the greatest disservice of them all, she thinks that she’s found her way home by meeting the Wizard and turns out that you’re still not even close at this point, Dorothy. And this is kind of sad. People try things, they fail. You can do your best to prepare them and be like, “Hey, look.” If you walk down this road and you meet this challenge, you can tell them with your content, here’s what you should do about this. There’s going to be a point where people realize, “I need help. I need an expert to help me sort this problem out.”

And not everyone’s going to come to that conclusion, not everyone is going to become a customer of yours and that’s fun. But we’ve been really respectful and considerate of people’s emotional state as we do this kind of stuff, so we’ve helped them as much as we can. And maybe a few years from now, they’ll get disturbed a bit more and maybe they’ll come around then. I don’t know. We done literally as much as we can. You’re never going to get 100% conversion. So, at this point, your role as a friendly marketer is to tell Dorothy what the real solution is. Because again, she doesn’t want to get to the promise land, she wants what the promise land eventually leads her to, which is Kansas, she wants to go home.

She wants to go to a place where everything is comfortable, and she’s worry free, and shes’ happy. And what you know as a wellness expert, what you know as a health expert, what you have in your brain, that is essentially like a J6, it’s like a jet.

Yuri:                                       Yep.

David:                                   Sitting on the runway of all of this airport, waiting to take Dorothy home. And here you need to say to Dorothy, “Look, I know you’re in this troubling place. If you would like to go home to Kansas, I have a seat for you on my jet.” And you can describe what that’s like. You can describe your product. And you’ve got more time in space and grace to do it here, because you’re not just trying to take money of some confused lost girl who’s in an unfamiliar land. You’ve built that relationship with her. You’ve told her what the problem is. You’ve told her where she needs to be, you’ve helped her get pretty close to it, now she will listen.

So, you can describe the features and the benefits of your product. You can say, “Look, we’ve got these really nice comfy seats so you can recline in comfort.” And those are three very important words in marketing. “So, you can.”

We’ve got these stewards and stewardesses who will bring you around some delicious and nutritious food, so you can enjoy your flight, have a nice meal, or if you’re scum class, we’ll bring around some calories and you won’t starve to death.

Yuri:                                       Some salty nuts.

David:                                   Whatever, yes, something. We’ve got these big comfy wheel … These big wheels underneath the plane so you can land safely in Kansas. You can describe your features and your benefits here. And at this point, you need to. Some Dorothys might’ve been on the journey with you for a year. “I need help.”

Yuri:                                       Yeah, that’s so good. Guys this is such a good story. It’s actually … It’s pretty amazing, that when you think about these movies and the hero’s journey, how similar it is to the journey of marketing, which is … What you said at the beginning of this was that most people are narcissistic and they focus on themselves with their marketing, but the key is that it’s not about us being the Wizard and saying, “Hey, look at me, I’m so cool. It’s about us understanding Dorothy and making all of our marketing about Dorothy. And once we’ve got that bond built with them, then they’re like, “Oh, this person gets me. I should do business with them.”

It’s talking about desire and getting to that point where Dorothy’s so lost, that she’s had all this crap to happen to her. It’s the same reason why … If you’re running a marathon, they’re not giving out water and Gatorade at the start of the race. They’re giving out miles into it and at the end when you’re about to collapse on the ground … Because that is where desire is the highest. So, you have to understand this guys because it’s tough to get people to buy who are not ready to buy. But if you understand this process that Dorothy or your customers, your prospects go through, it becomes a whole lot easier to meet them where they’re at, and then engage in that conversation with them. So, this is awesome. Keep going, man.

David:                                   You said we’re not the Wizard and you’re exactly right. And I said at the start of this journey, your audience is not interested in information about you at all at the start. And I want to speak directly to the wellness experts who are listening to this because I know it’s really hard to feel like you’re doing your baby. What you know, what you can do for people. I know it’s really hard to do justice to how much of a change you can make to people. I know it’s really hard to feel like you’re explaining how much of a transformation you can make. And I know it’s really hard to put yourself out there and be like, “Look, if you really want results, I can really help you.”

So, we’ve done everything that we can at this point, but there is one last thing that renders almost everything else obsolete but it still requires these … Your Dorothy to go through these four circumstances and you to do these four things but, the last thing that I need to say is the one thing that is 99% of this journey, because …

Yuri:                                       And on that note, we’ll end it there, tune in next week. Sorry, keep going.

David:                                   We’re not the Wizard but the plane home that Dorothy wants to get a seat on so badly, that plane has something far more important than the comfy seat, and the big wheels, and the flight stewards and stewardesses, the plane has a pilot. And the pilot is you. The pilot knows everything that there is to know about the journey from Oz to Kansas. You notice how the plane handles. She knows where all the flying monkeys and the poppy fields and the apple throwing trees are. They’ve done this journey before a lot. And you have to tell the story of the pilot to make Dorothy feel safe.

So, for some people listening to this, you’ll have what I would call a story of overcoming. You may have found yourself lost in Kansas at one point, yourself. You may have been disturbed and realize, “I’m really overweight. My hormones done work at all. My metabolism is shot. My skin is terrible. My digestion is messed up.” You may have been through the journey yourself. And if you can explain that to Dorothy at this point, she will trust you because you’ve already helped her get so far and she be like of course, of course this person know what they’re talking about. They’ve helped me and they just told me what it was like for them.

Now, if you don’t have a story of overcoming, you have a story of discovery, which is how you figured out the promise land. How you figured out the enemy that you need to identify for Dorothy. How you’ve fought to uncover these useful but incomplete tools that she needs to know about. Because learning about the human body is the hardest thing you can do. It’s harder than shooting a Tesla to Mars. It’s harder than making a billion dollars. Fixing one of these things that we all walk around is the most complex thing we can do and there is so much conflicting misinformation, bad ideas, outdated science, and stuff that is frankly bad advice that we all have to wade through to figure out what the best path is for Dorothy.

So, when you can tell your audience, “Hey, look, people used to come to me in the gym and they’d be like, “My backs hurting all the time and I try to figure it out. And I was told all these different conflicting ideas. And it really pissed me off. This is the battle I went through to figure out how to get back to Kansas. How I can get you back to Kansas. Dorothy is a captive audience and she’ll want to know that story because wouldn’t you want to know that the pilot of your plane has really, really worked hard to figure out how to fly that thing.

So, if all you really wanted to do was make more money and I know this audience is not about that kind of stuff, I know we want to make money by serving. I know we’re all about making a bigger difference. I know we all like getting those testimonials of people who say … Of people who we’ve never met, who say, “You’ve helped me so much. I referred you to all my friends. I can’t believe how good this program was.” I know that’s what matters to most of us. But if all you really wanted to do was make more money, wait for the right time, talk about yourself because you will make more sales that way.

Yuri:                                       Yeah, that’s great. I think an important component that I didn’t mention in the marketing question you asked me was empathy, is when we can understand someone else’s pain and imagine ourselves in that person’s position, we’re more likely to take action. So, if someone, like you said, Dorothy resinates with the pilot’s story of having gone through this journey of several times, “Like, oh my god, you get where I’ve been. You get this journey. I trust that you know what you’re doing.”

And talking about pilots, I was on a flight years ago and it was really turbulence. The flight attendant came on and she said, “Don’t worry, this pilot is former Snow Bird.” So, one of those acrobatic air pilots in Canada.” And so it’s like, “No, problem, we’re good, right?” Because now that this trust has been built, that this pilot’s seen way worse, and they’ve done it a thousand times. So, now it’s like, “Okay, we can relax a little bit more.”

So, dude, this has been really, really good. Really insightful. So many good nuggets and takeaways and guys listen to this story again because there’s so many pieces to what David’s just shared that. If you pull this out and start to build your marketing around this and your whole business, this is the way business is done anyways. If you really examine things done properly, do. So, thanks for sharing this, man, this is really good.

David:                                   So, I’d love to give the audience some homework …

Yuri:                                       Yeah, let’s do it.

David:                                   Around this kind of stuff. I would love to see people start getting out there and do some friendly marketing. So, if you’re still listening to this podcast and you agree with what I’ve said and you can kind of see how it would make sense, I’d love for you to go back and listen to this episode and just think about what I’ve told you to do. Because what did I say circumstance number one is that Dorothy finds herself in? She finds herself in this place where she’s unfamiliar. She doesn’t really know what’s going on and she’s got this big problem staring in her face.

So, for people who started an online business, we don’t really know what’s going on. We don’t really understand what we’re supposed to do. What did I do for you? The first thing that I did in this presentation was I gave you clarity on the problem, which is a … Not everyone’s ready to buy from you now. Then, I told you what the promise land is. I said, treat peoples emotions with the respect as you take them through your journey. Then, I gave you a bunch of useful but incomplete tools, which was the story around how to do friendly marketing. And it is useful, it is incomplete. No ones going to make $10 million after listening to this podcast episode. We all know that but as helpful as I can possibly be and that’s why I deliberately designed this story this way and you know.

The last thing that I could do now and I’m not going to because I don’t have anything to sell. But if I wanted to sell something, I honestly can’t think of a better time to do it than now.

Yuri:                                       Sure, awesome. David, with that said, what is the best place for people to stalk you online? And maybe be like, “Hey, man, tell me more.”

David:                                   You can go to my podcast, it’s on the iTunes. It’s called the Business of Health.  I don’t really work hard on Instagram or any of that kind of stuff. You won’t find too much from me there. But I work really hard on having a really good podcast. So, if you’re a podcast listener, which you probably are if you’re still listening to me. That’s the best place to go and find me. My website is thedavidwhite.com. Don’t go to davidwhite.com, it’s a website for power tools. So, I chose … What did I buy it off? I bought it off GoDaddy. It said, “davidwhite.com is taken, would you like thedavidwhite.com?”

Yuri:                                       That’s even better.

David:                                   I was like, “Yes, I would like thedavidwhite.com, that’s amazing. I will take that.”

Yuri:                                       Yeah.

David:                                   So, I’m on the interwebs at thedavidwhite.com. I’d love for people to go out and check out my podcast. And actually email me and let me know what you think. I’d be really touched to hear any feedback or criticism, good or bad.

Yuri:                                       Yeah, guys. His podcast is awesome. He had me on the podcast last week. I was telling you afterwards, “Dude, you’re one of the few interviewers that does the amount of research that you do on the guest.” It’s pretty amazing. So, if you want to listen to someone who really is a great interviewer and brings on some great people and gets deep into the story and the conversation in a way that’s meaningful, check out the podcast, it’s really good. He’s had some great guests on and can’t recommend highly enough. Yeah.

David:                                   If you want to hear some stories about what your journey’s going to be like to building your health business over the next five to 10 years? Listen to my podcast, because that’s what I try and bring, it’s this story about what you’re going to go through.

Yuri:                                       That’s awesome.

David:                                   And the tools, and the tactics, and the strategies, and stuff, but story.

Yuri:                                       Totally. Well, you have to, you’ve got to bring the power tools because of davidwhite.com, so … Not to be confused with thedavidwhite.com

David:                                   Exactly.

Yuri:                                       Anyways, David, this has been a pleasure. Thanks so much for staying up a little bit later down in Aus land and for joining us on the show. For everyone listening, check out the Business of Health Show on iTunes, subscribe, it’s a great podcast and hope you’ve enjoyed this one. Let us know what you think, we’ll have all the links in the show notes as well as in the blog. And thanks so much for joining us.



Yuri’s Take

Wasn’t that an amazing story, that whole Dorothy, Wizard of Oz. it’s so cool how he’s kind of overlaid … If that’s even a word, that story with marketing. Because marketing really is that type of journey. It really is the hero’s journey, which is the fabric of pretty much every movie where crap happens. Person, who is just the general person has to rise up and become this reluctant hero to go figure a solution, and then bring it back and help others or themselves. And that’s kind of most movies, right? And if we think about marketing, marketing is essentially that process, but your clients, your customers are the hero. We’re simply the guide. We’re the pilots to show them the way. So, it’s never about us. It’s never about us.

And this is the problem that I see that in today’s day and world, everyone … I shouldn’t say everyone, but especially look at things like Instagram and social media but mostly Instagram. It is so narcissistic, it sickens me to see people called influencers who are doing nothing more than taking pictures of their ass with millions of followers because obviously our primal instinct is to be like, “Show me more of that.” And then these individuals are monetizing their but through sponsorship to little to nothing else. There’s no value added, there’s no contribution. And where am I going with this? Where am I going with this? That is a good question. It was more of like a little tangent of a rant than providing of value here. But I’m sure you get what I’m saying.

It’s never about us, okay? Even if you’re sharing stuff about yourself on Instagram or on social, it’s important to share our story because our story shows that we’re empathetic with what our audience is going through. And your audience are your perfect client, should be able to see themselves through your story. And so they can kind of get into your shoes because you’ve got into their shoes, and there’s really cool kind of merging that happens to the point where, “Wow, this person knows exactly what I’m going through.” And when that happens, they are much more receptive to what it is you want them to do, which obviously is going to be a benefit for them.

So, if you’ve enjoyed this episode as much as I have, be sure to subscribe to the Healthpreneur Podcast on iTunes. While you’re there, leave a five star rating or review if you feel this is really five stars, I hope you do. And in the mean time, got lots of good stuff, lots of great interviews, lots of great solo rounds and discussions around really building a bullet proof mindset over the coming weeks. So, be sure to tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Lots of good stuff to help you take your business to the next level. And in the mean time, thank you so much for joining me once again. Have an amazing day, continue to go out there, be great, do great, and I’ll see you soon.

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What You Missed

On our last show featured Andy Hnilo,  the CEO of Alitura Naturals which is a skincare company whose products are made from all natural ingredients.

The story behind Alitura Naturals was created after Andy had a near-death experience which left him looking unrecognizable. He was inspired to accelerate the healing of his injuries, scars, and abrasions through natural means, and now shares his proven solutions with the world.

Andy is a great example of someone who didn’t let over-analysis paralyze him into inaction. He saw an opportunity in the market, saw a need, and filled it with his product.

You can check out the episode right here:  From Near Death To Business Success With Andy Hnilo