We’re super-excited for today’s episode on the Healthpreneur podcast! We’ve got Tijana Daly on the show, and she’s a certified personal trainer who specializes in pre- and post-natal exercise so new moms can look and feel their best.
She is recognizing that – even though she’s a master in her field – there’s still lots of unchartered territory to discover when it comes to business. This is so common for Healthpreneurs. After all, for the most part, we’re health professionals before we become business-owners.
Tijana just had her first enrollment call for her online program. Everyone can benefit from this episode because we can all better the way we handle enrollment calls. From knowing what to ask, navigating objections, and discovering your client’s urgency level, the art of the enrollment call is one that is can constantly be refined. Listen in to hear us dissect what works, what doesn’t, and why.
Click here to subscribe to the Healthpreneur™ Podcast on iTunes
In This Episode Tijana and I discuss:
- Presenting her system online versus face-to-face.
- The struggle of going from brick-and-mortar to online.
- Getting better at enrollment calls.
- Getting to the core of why a client needs help.
- Understanding if it is a “must” for the client.
- What to ask in your enrollment calls and what shuts people down.
- Answering in the form of a question and the 80/20 rule.
01:00 – 04:30 – Enrollment calls and being hung up on price
04:30 – 8:30 – Why price is never the issue and finding out the client’s urgency
8:30 – 15:30 – Breaking down Tijana’s first enrollment call
15:30 – 19:00 – Learning how to navigate objections and an example
19:00 – 23:00 – What we do to learn from our calls
What You Missed:
In our last episode I explained why you should grow – not cut – your expenses. If you want to grow – not shrink – your business, that is. Is this contrary to everything you’ve been told?
The reality is, whether you’re paying now for faster results or later for the slower ones, you’re spending money. And if you hold out now, trust me, you’re losing money.
You need to spend, but spend intelligently. Without a strategy, investing in anything is a waste.
So, tune in to hear how to grow your expenses the right way, catapult your business to the next level, and create the business you want.
Hey guys, welcome to another client’s deep dive, part of the Healthpreneur Podcast. This is a new addition, our new series we’re adding into the podcast, where we’re bringing on some of our clients and really going deep into what they need help with most. So, I figured, hey, why not just expose you guys if you’re watching and listening to this, to some of the thinking that goes on if you’re one of our clients.
Yuri Elkaim: So, today we’re joined by another Torontonian local awesome person. Tijana Daily. She is a female focus trainer and nutritionist and she helps moms lose fat and keep it off for good without restrictive dieting or cardio. So, Tijana it’s welcome to the call. Welcome to the podcast.
Tijana: Thank you. It’s so great to be here, Yuri.
Yuri Elkaim: Yes, it’s always fun. Let’s talk about what you need help with today and let’s dive into it.
Enrollment calls and being hung up on price
Tijana: Okay. Well, I’ve been training a while, so I feel like that whole aspect of what I do is all fine. But when it comes to the business stuff, there’s a lot of uncharted territory that I’ve never been in before. First of all, brick and mortar is different than doing online stuff. So, when it came down to when I’m getting clients, I’m comfortable with what I’m comfortable with. Now, it’s a whole other world where I have my program, I like it, I feel like it’s great. I have my whole system and that’s all great. But when it comes to presenting it to someone who’s a different type of prospect, such as online, I don’t see them face to face. What I had trouble with was I’m kind of been selling myself short almost because the way I present my program hasn’t been doing it justice. Yeah, that’s where I’m stuck.
Yuri Elkaim: Sure. So, just for context, you had your first enrollment call yesterday, right?
Tijana: I did.
Yuri Elkaim: So, it’s not like you’ve been doing this now for like six months and it’s like you’re trying to figure this out. So, you literally just had your first enrollment call and just for everyone listening and watching, it’s important to have that context for this conversation. Because as I’ve mentioned before, the better you get at “selling,” which is … it’s not really selling. It’s just knowing how to have conversations that lead to enrollments, the better off you get at that. You write your own check for whatever you want in your business. And for everyone watching and listening remember, I talk about premium pricing and we talk about premium pricing, but it’s never about taking advantage of people.
Yuri Elkaim: We’re not doing that. We’re serving people the highest possible level. But in order for people to pay you premium prices, you have to have a phone call. You can’t get someone to go to a website and draw $3,000 to $5,000 by clicking a button. Just so I’m clear, the issue seems to be how to present your program on the phone calls as effectively as possible. Correct?
Yuri Elkaim: Okay. So, you’re going through the 30 day sales amplifier right now, right?
Tijana: I am. I fell behind because my blinders were on to finish my PCP, but now, yes.
Why price is never the issue and finding out the client’s urgency
Yuri Elkaim: Awesome. So, the 30-day sales amplifier guys, if you’re not one of our clients is a bonus training that I decided to put on for all of our clients to give them the fundamental understanding and know how the scripts, the whole bit to be a lot more effective on the phone. Now, this is an addition to the whole module we already have on enrollment calls, but because it’s so important to really understand how to do this stuff, we’re giving them daily sales training to help them make that happen. So, as of this recording, actually this morning, we talked about this specific subject, which was the prescription part of your phone call, how to introduce your program, your solution in a way where the person on the other end of the line is like, “Holy cow, I need to have this.” You had mentioned that when you’re working with people in person, it’s a lot easier to enroll them, at least from your experience. What do you think, and again, you’ve only had one call so far, but what do you think is the difference? Why do you think it’s different?
Tijana: It’s so good you asked that because after that call yesterday, I really think it was just that hang up on price because I had the call with a lady, $3,000, I was kind of uncomfortable. Then I had an assessment actually immediately after that, which was selling one on one training for less costs or whatever. I think just like going down from a high price point to selling a lower price point, I was full of confidence. I was owning it. I was like, “Damn, we should have brought that an hour ago.”
Yuri Elkaim: So you just have to change the price of program to 10,000 now. And then, maybe next call with the $3,000, our price point. Okay. This is the biggest thing, and I told everyone on today’s call, I said, if there’s one thing that you tattooed on your body, not that I’m a fan of tattoos, but that’s another story. If there’s one thing you tattoo on your wall, your body, whatever, is that price is never the issue. Okay? Price is never the issue. The reason people don’t buy it, the reason people don’t buy anything is not because of the price, it’s because they don’t believe it’s going to help them solve their problem. That’s what it comes down to. So, your job in the call is first and foremost, the first part of the call is the whole discovery phase, is honor what they want, where there they stood, all those pain points and you really want to get to the core of why they might even want your help.
Yuri Elkaim: They have to realize, in the discussion, that we’re the rat. Is not bad, it’s horrific. Right? And that’s part of the job of a coach is to not sugarcoat the situation, it’s not to make things more dramatic than they are, but it’s to bring to surface the truth. And if someone is saying, “I can’t go on.” Like, “Why did you book this call with me?” “Because I’ve been struggling for 10 years with excess weight.” That’s a pain point that they really need to be associated with. And then, you just have to ask questions to dig a little bit deeper to really find why now. Why is now a must for them? So, in this conversation, did you ask the potential client if now is a must?
Tijana: I think I did ask some variation. Well, okay. That’s where we ask near the end. I know that near the end I was … things went a little south. I don’t know if I asked that.
Yuri Elkaim: It’s all good. You just kind of put in the wraps, right? If you’re asking somebody, “Listen, is this the mastery now?” And they say, “Well, not really.” End the discussion, calls over. Because no one is going to spend good money on a solution that’s a nice to have. So that’s the first … is if you’re at that qualifying the side part of the call and they’re like, “Man, it’d be nice to have this on a must.” “Sorry, I can’t help you.” I only work with fully committed people. That’s it. “Nice. Thanks so much for your time. “Here’s a resource. I can help you in the meantime.” But if the person says, “Yes, I’m fully committed, I have to do whatever it takes,” you have to use that against them. Or not against them, but you have to use that in the conversation to say, “Listen, I understand this is more expensive for a little bit more money than you wanted to spend, but just a few minutes ago you had told me that this is an absolute must for you.”
Yuri Elkaim: And now, the reason people bring up price is because they haven’t seen enough value in your program for them to be like, okay, it’s $3,000 but I’m really solving a $500,000 problem. So, for them, what’s happening in their mind is that they have a $1,000 problem and your program’s $3,000. Therefore, they can’t make sense of that. So, our goal on the call is to make their … holy cow. I don’t know what my kids are done upstairs. It’s like the house is falling down. The goal is to make their problem infinitely more valuable in terms of like the cost of it compared to the cost for the investment of your program. Does that make sense?
Breaking down Tijana’s first enrollment call
Yuri Elkaim: So, there’s a couple of questions you can ask throughout the call. For instance, early on in the call you can ask them what they’re struggling with. Ask them why did they book this call. The person you spoke with on the phone yesterday. Why did she book the call with you?
Tijana: Pardon. Oh well, that was good. She was getting really deep. That’s what killed me because she was saying like … the beginning part was amazing. She was answering all the questions I asked and I opened everything up, so she did most of the talking. She was struggling with what exactly my ideal client struggles with, losing weight. She has always done like isogenics, the Weight Watchers, she’s never been able to keep it off. She has put herself last. She has had three kids and she’s sick of Yoyo dieting. So, she really opened up about all this stuff.
Yuri Elkaim: That’s terrific. And so you can ask the question, “Listen, what would it be worth to you to no longer have to deal with his problem, to no longer have to go from isogenics to this, to this? What would that be worth to you?” Most people are not going to give you a number because they can’t. How do you quantify health improvements? How do you quantify a weight loss? You’ve got to challenge them. You’ve got to lean in, and most people might say, “I don’t know. That’d be priceless.” Well, if you did know what might that look like, let them come up with a number, $10,000, $50,000, $100,000, $1 million. Because now they’re giving you to the challenge and the opportunity with intangibles like health, fulfillment, joy, relationships. We know, as humans, these are the things that are most important to us.
Yuri Elkaim: Yet, for some reason, so many people get hung up on, oh, I can’t charge more money for that stuff because there’s no ROI attached to it. For me, that doesn’t make sense. Because the very fact that there is no ROI attached to it means that it’s the most meaningful thing. Because if we’re saying health, relationships, happiness, etc., are the most important, how do you quantify that? So a question like, if you no longer have to suffer with this issue, what would that be worth to you? Is a way of quantifying a more intangible like weight loss, health improvements and so forth. So, what we’re trying to get at is we want the clients to now, in their mind, put a stake in the sand to say, “Oh cool, my problem is now worth $100,000.” So that when you eventually introduced your program and your offer at 3K, 5K, even 50K, whatever, it’s relative, like in their mind they’ve already placed that flag and now it’s infinitely less expensive.
Yuri Elkaim: So, that’s one of the ways that we want to look at maybe quantifying some of these intangibles. It’s great that she opened up and shared all this stuff with you and we want to let … we want to bring to surface like what that’s costing. Like, did you ask her like, what does this cost in your life? What does jumping around and doing all this stuff costing you?
Tijana: I did ask her kind of like what you were just talking about. Well, I don’t know if this is the right thing to say, but I also said where you said like, how much price would you put to like end the cycle. You’ve been Yoyo dieting. You’ve put yourself last for this long. How much more price are you going to pay? And then, I said like, well, also, you want to break the cycle of spending money and all these other programs because that’s also a monetary cost that you spend.
Yuri Elkaim: Did you get an answer to that first question?
Tijana: Yeah, she took a deep breath and she’s like, “God, how would you put a price on that?”
Yuri Elkaim: Exactly.
Tijana: Exactly what you said. So I feel like I could, the thing that kills me that I’m kind of shooting myself over is like I feel like she was getting, feeling what I was saying and then, when I came to present my program, it was almost like I thought like, “Oh my God, this seems like just any old workout program now.” Yeah, I think it was just the presenting the program itself that did me in as well. I really downplayed it as a different solution. You know what I mean?
Yuri Elkaim: Sure. We’re going to be doing a training call next week on the model of your program. How to really communicate that in a way that’s infinitely more powerful. So, we’ll save that for that training if that’s cool. But you want to think about … because there’s a couple of questions as you want to answer in the prescription of the calls. The prescription for everyone watching and listening is when you’re sharing your thing, your presentation or demonstration of your program and how we can help this individual, there’s a couple of questions you got ask or you have to answer a story. First and foremost, the person on the other end of the phone is asking them these … they’re asking themselves these questions, what does it? That’s the first thing. Well, what is this thing? What will this do for me? So that’s going to inherently tie into your benefit, your promise.
Yuri Elkaim: Why is this better than anything else, including doing nothing? How does this work and what do I get? And then under what do I get it? You’re going to talk about the deliverables. You’re going to get a couple of coaching calls, this and this and this, and it’s important with those deliverables to tie the future, the deliverable into the benefit, not just listen them out, right?
Yuri Elkaim: So, those are really important questions to answer. Not necessarily like, hey, you might be asking what is this? Here it is. Just casually talk about it in a normal conversational tone. But it’s important to address these because the person on the other end of the phone is thinking this stuff. Okay, well what’s different about this? Why should I invest this instead of going to read a book or working with someone on a gem, etc. Does that make sense, Tijana?
Tijana: It does. I knew that she was thinking that because then she just started asking questions like, okay, so how do we get the workouts? What about the meal plans? Then it was like getting hit with the questions. And I was like, oh. And then that brought my confidence down because I was like, well, it seems like she’s just totally thinking “Well, how is this different?”
Yuri Elkaim: Yeah, so remember rule number one is certainty sells, and uncertainty is going to kill sales. So, if someone is not 100% certain about what is going on here, how your program can help them, but if they’re also not certain about how the program works. So if they’re, in their mind, it’s like cloudy and foggy and they’re like okay, get some stuff here and some workouts and some year plans, that they visually can’t see it in their head, that’s going to create stress and that’s going to cause them to shut down. And that’s going to cause them to say, “Listen, I just need to think about this.” Because they can’t mentally get their head around the specifics of it. So we want to make sure that you’re clarifying all that and doing so in a way that is not on tangents and stuff.
Yuri Elkaim: That’s why we want to present visual. If we can send them something visual on the call and we can walk them through that, now it’s like, okay, does this make sense? Do you understand what this means? Cool, how would this specific thing benefit you in your current situation? What do you like from what you’ve seen so far? Who else might benefit from you doing this? And starting to ask some of those opinion-based questions, now we start to get them to buy into why this is going to help them. Because if we are the ones telling and … so I mentioned, I think yesterday’s training. I said our goal is to ask and assess not to tell and empress. So, if you ever, and you probably found yourself like I have, like a lot of people have you on your heels, and you’re like, here’s why this program is awesome. Here’s what I like, just sort of just going on and on and on.
Tijana: Exactly. That was me.
Learning how to navigate objections and an example
Yuri Elkaim: That’s totally fine. It’s first and foremost, it’s knowing how to handle the situation, which at the time you didn’t quite know how to do, which is totally fine. You only know what you know. So, it’s learning and training and knowing how to handle different situations and then when they come up, it’s just training and getting better at that. Now, it’s fun when you get comfortable with this stuff, it’s a lot of fun because every objection or everything the client throws your away, you’re not going to throw it back to them as you’re explaining yourself, you’re going to throw it back to them as a question. I had a call a little bit earlier and the couple were like, “Hey, I’m totally in. This sounds amazing. We’re in. I just have a few questions.”
Yuri Elkaim: I’m like, “Yeah, totally. Let’s do it.” He’s like, “Okay, listen. We want to make 20K a month, but I can’t conceivably make sense of the numbers. How do I get 20 people paying us $1,000 a month?” And I asked them, I was like, “Okay, so you want to make 20K a month, your program’s 4K, so can you see yourself enrolling five clients per month?” So I just let the silence sit there. He’s like, “Yeah, obviously, but it’s not that easy because people are going to pay in payment plans.” I’m like, “Okay. What if they did pay in full, that’d be five clients.” But let’s just say that it was 20 clients at 1K per month, could you enroll 20 clients per month? And so they’re like, “Well, yeah, possibly if the numbers work out.”
Yuri Elkaim: I was like, “Okay, cool. So let’s look at the numbers. Do think that with your current expertise, with your knowledge, and having obviously done phone sales in the past, could you conceivably enroll one out of three people you speak with?” And he said, “Yeah, I think so. For sure.” I’m like, “Great, well, if you want to enroll 20 clients a month, that’s 60 conversations. And those conversations might be 30 minutes each. So that’s 30 hours, right? That’s one call per day. Can you do one call per day or three calls per day and enroll one client?” He’s like, “Yeah, I think it can do that.” I was like, “Great. So what are we waiting for?”
Yuri Elkaim: So, instead of me telling the person like, “Hey, you only have to do 20 clients, that’s 60 calls. Any statements you’re thinking of making, just reframe it as a question. And what that’s going to do is it’s going to help the prospective client answer for themselves, which means they internalize the answer and now they’re going to sell you on the fact that they can do something or that they finally understand what it is you get them trying to understand.
Tijana: That question framework has helped so much because I used to do calls in the past with clients, just for whatever. They were just kind of all over the place first of all, but I did … okay, so that was working really well, like you said, to discover more about them and all of these things. But where I got stuck with the questions was when she was asking a bunch of questions, I guess I just didn’t know how to bring it back in the form of a question. I just kept asking if she had more questions and that’s where it went south.
What we do to learn from our calls
Yuri Elkaim: Yeah. And don’t worry. We’re going to help you guys with all this stuff throughout the 30-day sales amplifier. So, if you’re listening and watching to this, and you’re not one of our clients, you’re missing out big time because you guys are going to get exactly how to handle all this stuff. Because at the end of the day, if you know what the issues are going to be or if they’ve happened once, nobody big deal, if they happen twice, three times, five times, big deal.
Yuri Elkaim: Because if it happens once, document it. What happened here? What was the objection? How did I not handle this? What was the question I didn’t know how to answer? Just create an inventory of that stuff. And then, what you can do is just start mapping out a script. So, what we do is we think like every possible thing that we encounter on the phone that we don’t know how to handle, jot it down. All right, let’s go back to the drawing board. How would we address this in the future? And so, we rehearsed that and we train it, and then next time it comes up, it’s like, no problem. Hey, can’t afford it? No problem.
Yuri Elkaim: I want to start later, no problem. And you think about it. No worries. Let me talk to my spouse. You know exactly what to say. But you can’t expect yourself to know what to say if you don’t know what to say. So, don’t be too hard on yourself Tijana, because the first call is great. You did it. Most of the call was pretty good. And then, it can only get better. So, that’s the good news.
Tijana: Well, guess what? I have two calls back to back right after this.
Yuri Elkaim: Perfect. There you go. What I would love for you, if I were a coach, listen to your calls, instead of having you do a thousand different things, the one thing I would want you to think about doing is, in your prescription, is obviously just breaking down your program based on those questions you mentioned, you also have that in the script anyways, so you can access that. But also just thinking about when, anytime we ask a question, pass the question back. So your answer is in the form of a question.
Tijana: Is it okay that I’m not talking that much then? That’s the point right? They’re talking,
Yuri Elkaim: Totally. It’s 80, 20. You’re like 80% of the time the client’s talking, 20% you’re talking. They’ll get off the phone, and they’re like that was the best conversation of all time because I was speaking the whole time. And you’re just listening and asking a question. What else and what else and what else? And you just ask the question, ask the question.
Tijana: You’re right.
Yuri Elkaim: Remember, he or she who asks the question, controls the sales.
Tijana: Yeah, you said it.
Yuri Elkaim: Okay. Cool. So, is that helpful, Tijana?
Tijana: Very helpful. I’m more confident now and a little bit relaxed.
Yuri Elkaim: Cool. Is there anything else you want to address in the next one or two minutes that we need to clarify before your calls.
Tijana: I think that’s it. Just got to bring the confidence.
Yuri Elkaim: Just bring it, just bring it. Again, confidence comes from repetition. Knowing what to do, repeating it and just you’ll find after a couple of conversations, honestly, after the time you’ve done maybe 10 calls, you’ll feel a thousand times more confidence.
Tijana: That’s true.
Yuri Elkaim: It would be nice to go into your first call fully prepared, like you’ve done this for years, but that’s not realistic, so don’t worry about it. Just practice, get a little bit better, look at where certain points of the call could have been a bit better in terms of from your perspective, and then just learn from that.
Tijana: Yeah, absolutely.
Yuri Elkaim: Cool. Awesome. So this has been helpful?
Tijana: Absolutely. Very helpful.
Yuri Elkaim: Cool. So, if everyone listening watching this, Tijana, what would you say to someone who’s considering working with us in the HPA program, who is trying to build their business, just trying to build their coaching business? Maybe they’re not too sure what to do. Maybe they’ve tried other things in the past and they were burned and now they’re skeptical. What would you say to them?
Tijana: Well, I would say what you always say, Yuri, there’s really no, literally no other option. LI feel like if I didn’t do this, it just seems stupid not to because it’s completely changed the way that my business runs and just allowed me to scale in ways that never would have been possible doing what I was doing. So, if you’re thinking about it, definitely think no further.
Yuri Elkaim: Awesome. Thank you. Wicked. All right guys. Well, there you go. I hope you’ve enjoyed this conversation. And again, if he want to start enrolling clients at a higher level instead of a hundred bucks an hour and you actually want to transform their lives, you have to be able to do that on the phone. And if you want help with your phone conversations, then again, we’d be happy to help you. So, Tijana, thank you so much for opening up, for sharing what’s going on and I’m looking forward to hearing how your calls after our call here goes and onwards and upwards.
Tijana: Thank you. Thank you, Yuri.
Yuri Elkaim: Thanks guys.
Yuri Elkaim: Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of the Healthpreneur Podcast. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, here’s what I’d like you to do right now. If you haven’t done so already, please subscribe to the Healthpreneur Podcast on iTunes and while you’re there, leave us a rating or review. It helps us get in front of more people and change more lives.
And if you’re ready to start or scale your health or fitness coaching business, I want to start getting in front of more people, working with them at a higher level without trading time for money, then I invite you to check out our free seven figure business blueprint training. Totally free right now, and you can do so at healthpreneurgroup.com/training.
For now, thank you so much for joining us. Continue to be great, do great and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.
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