Hey guys, Yuri here and welcome to another deep dive episode. I’m excited to have another special guest with us. Patrick Willis
Patrick is just starting out and he is supporting people who have a terminal diagnosis and helps them make the best of the rest of their life.
Like so many other people, Patrick knows who he wants to serve, but is struggling with how to get more of them into his world. So it really becomes an attraction problem or an attraction challenge.
We took a look at Patrick’s funnel and worked with him to dial in his message to improve his conversions.
We identified where Patrick’s messaging needs improvement and how we identified the one area Patrick needed to focus on to attract his ideal client and convert to a customer.
Be sure to grab a pen and paper to take notes so you can use the same strategy in your messaging
Click here to subscribe to the Healthpreneur™ Podcast on iTunes
In This Episode Patrick and I discuss:
01:18 – 02:14 – Helping The Terminally Ill
02:15 – 03:49 – Patrick’s Biggest Business Challenge
03:50 – 11:30 – Yuri Breaks Down How To Attract Your Ideal Client
11:30 – 28:39 – Dialing In Patrick’s Marketing Message For Better Conversions
28:40 – 32:49 – Patrick’s New And Improve Marketing Message
What You Missed:
In our last deep dive episode, we welcomed Leah Marie. Leah finds herself in the situation where she isn’t at the point to quit what she’s doing to focus her energy full time towards starting her business. On top of trying to make the transition she also finds that she needs to balance self-care and managing relationships during this time.
Entrepreneurship is one of the biggest spiritual journeys or growth endeavors you’ll ever go on other than parenting.
Tune in as I help guide Leah through her new journey as an entrepreneur and talk with her the different phases she will experience along the journey.
Hey guys, welcome to the show. Yuri here. I’m excited to have another special guest with us. Patrick Willis is on the line with us and he is over in the UK as you’ll obviously get to see by his awesome accent.
Patrick Willis: Hello.
Yuri Elkaim: As you guys know, I’ve got no context for what we’re about to talk about. So Patrick, can you fill us in with who you are, what you do and then we’ll jump into how we can serve you over the next 20, 25 minutes.
Helping The Terminally Ill
Patrick Willis: Yeah, that sounds really good, Yuri. Thanks for that and again, thanks for the opportunity to speak together, to work together a little bit. So essentially my background, I was a kind of techy, geeky nerd and ended up being a business executive and got super, super tired of the corporate drone rat race stuff and started my own business being that I had coaching skills. I could do that and started doing some of this and then a couple of years ago now, I suddenly realized that there was a passion I started chasing, I hadn’t known about before and that is I’m supporting people who’ve kind of walked out of the doctor’s office with a terminal diagnosis and I help them make the best of the rest of their life. That’s what I’m doing. So I’m pretty new to this. I’m in a business I’ve not long started and just building, building up now, but I fill in the gaps in my knowledge. I’m a good coach, but I’ve been volunteering in hospices. Things I like to understand the specific needs of people in those kinds of places and how I’m building from there.
Patrick’s Biggest Business Challenge
Yuri Elkaim: Good for you. So what do you need help with most? If we could get clarity on maybe one thing over the next 20 minutes. What would that one thing be for you?
Patrick Willis: Okay, well I’m pretty happy that when I get on a call with people that I can sign them up. I know if I get the right person, somebody who needs my help and I get on the call with them, they can work with me one on one or in a group if that’s the right thing for them to do, but I have not quite completely sussed how to get the right people on a call with me to say, “Yeah, I’ve done a bit of ad on Facebook. I’ve been in certain groups and so forth,” and again, trust is an issue. I think people go, “Who’s this guy? What’s he trying to sell me? Oh no, no, no.” So for me, I think my biggest gap is working out the best place to kind of reach out to my tribe and my ideal client.
Yuri Elkaim: Perfect. That’s probably the most common challenge that we come up against is “I know who I want to serve. How do we get more of them into my world?” So it really becomes an attraction problem or an attraction challenge. I’m just going to share my screen here with you and we can just draw some stuff out. So just to lay a bit of a framework, we’ve got in any business there are three major pillars and I’ll just short form them. So we have attract, convert and deliver. So you know that when you have a client on the phone or a potential client, you can most likely enroll them if they’re a good fit and once they’re in with you, you can deliver some amazing results with them, right?
Patrick Willis: Yep.
Yuri Breaks Down How To Attract Your Ideal Client
Yuri Elkaim: Most people, most coaches are very much like that. They know they can deliver awesome stuff and that’s really important because that gives you the confidence to have that conversation with them in the first place. So what we need to figure out here is we need to look at how do we attract people in the first place? How do we get people knowing about you and what it is you can do for them. The conversion piece is the next piece, which obviously you feel pretty confident, comfortable around. So if it’s okay with you, we’ll kind of just maybe direct our attention on the attraction piece.
Patrick Willis: Sounds like a plan. Yeah, absolutely.
Yuri Elkaim: So there’s, what have you done, just as a bit of background in this, what have you done to get in front of potential clients up to right now?
Patrick Willis: Essentially clients I’ve gotten has been mainly word of mouth. Now again, it’s an old coach story and that’s not scalable. We all kind of know that. So I have been looking a bit on some Facebook groups where people are dealing with things like a terminal illness and life threatening cancer and so forth. So I’ve been looking organically in there, but that’s been a challenge because people are a little bit suspicious of what you’re doing if you’re doing anything other than just directly contributing to the group, which I’ve been doing as well. I have been running some very small scale Facebook ads, but I wasn’t really willing to scale those up until I could see conversions off them essentially. So I’ve seen a very small sliver of opt ins, but nothing that’s converting at scale into something that looks like it becomes affordable if that makes sense.
Yuri Elkaim: Sure. So really quickly walk me through what that looks like. So they go from a Facebook ad to where?
Patrick Willis: So they go to a Facebook ad and then I send them to an opt in page and on my opt in page I’ve got a lead magnet, which is kind of four things you can do right now to drop your anchor and find your feet. Imagine you just have walked out of the doctor’s office with this diagnosis you weren’t expecting and that’s available on there. Should you sign up for the lead magnet then you’ll be in my email list. Then I will nurture you and invite you onto a call.
Patrick Willis: There’s also in the back of the opt in form, there is an immediate saying, “Hey, thanks for signing up. If you want to speak to me now, you could. You can sign here and book in my calendar if you wanted to.” No one has done that so far. On the thank you page there is a possibility of signing up there. So that’s what, that’s essentially what it looks like at the moment. So I have a smallish list that have opted in through that mechanism and I’ve sent them some nurturing emails, but as of yet, no one has come back through that funnel to take up a call.
Yuri Elkaim: Can you, do you know roughly what the conversion percentages from the Facebook ad to people opting in for the lead magnets?
Patrick Willis: From the Facebook ad to the opt in, it’s pretty low. It’s around about 5% I think.
Yuri Elkaim: Okay, and then right now you’ve had 0% take the phone call on the thank you page?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, that’s right.
Yuri Elkaim: Okay. Like I say, marketing is really, it’s really math and psychology. So once you understand the metrics, that’s a great place to start because then you can reverse engineer to make things a bit better. So, what I think would be really helpful to focus on instead of talking about a different funnel, pipeline, whatever, just using what you already have and making it a little bit better if that’s cool?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, definitely. I’m for that.
Yuri Elkaim: So when we look at… All right, so we go back up here, we look at attract, convert, deliver. Now one of the biggest pieces that most people don’t recognize is we all, everyone wants more traffic. They want more traffic to their website, to their offer, et cetera and so that’s really the attract side of things, but in order to attract as many people as you want, you have to have the conversion side dialed in.
Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yuri Elkaim: Right? And the conversion side is not just the phone call, it’s how to get people from the Facebook ad to actually convert to opt in for the lead magnet and then from the lead magnet, how to get them to convert over here. So each stage of your pipeline is going to have an ask, right? Opt in, call me, book a time, et cetera and every ask inherently has a conversion mechanism there. So when we look at what it takes to improve conversions, I have something I call the Triad of Influence, and what this does is again, three circles. There’s three pieces that are really important. Number one is we have our market, we have our message and we have our magic. You mentioned that getting people to book a call with you or opt in or even enroll with you who don’t even know you, there’s obviously a bit of a trust issue in some cases, right?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah.
Yuri Elkaim: So the key is market, message, magic. When you have those dialed in, that’s how you start making more money and enrolling clients and really serving those clients, but one of the things that’s interesting is when you look at the market and the message, this interesting little crossover point here, this is the opportunity to build what I call KLT and that’s know, like, and trust. What that means is when you put a message in front of the right market, that market is going to say to themselves, “Wow, this person really understands me. They know exactly what I’m going through,” and when you can describe what people are going through or they feel more understood by you, that is how you build trust with an audience. So the messaging is really important and making sure that it’s obviously going to the right market.
Yuri Elkaim: Now the second component here is the magic that you introduce into the market. Now the magic is your offer, for the lack of a better term. So your lead magnet is your magic and what we need to do with our magic is we need to introduce some type of novelty. So when we have magic that is introduced into a marketplace, for it to really work it needs to be somewhat novel, different than what people have seen before. Otherwise they just browse on, right?
Patrick Willis: Yeah.
Yuri Elkaim: And then the third components, when we look at when you have a message that contains that magic, what that does is it builds desire. Because what you’ve done here is you’ve put a message in front of a market and that message is saying, “If you’re this type of person, here’s exactly what you’re going through,” and they’re like, “Holy cow, how’d you know that?” “And by the way, I figured out this really cool solution for you.” What that does is it builds a desire for them to want to have that thing. Does that make sense?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, totally makes sense, yeah.
Yuri Elkaim: So if you were to look at market, message and magic, based on what you know of this right now and based on what you’ve seen perform in your business, which of these three do you think probably needs the most help right now?
Dialing In Patrick’s Marketing Message For Better Conversions
Patrick Willis: That’s an excellent question, which I’ve been pondering on for the last couple of minutes as you’ve been talking. I think it’s the message because essentially, I know the magic I can bring. I know the difference I can make. I know the impact thing I can bring. I know what the market looks like and I know kind of they’ve got some other places where they’re hanging out. I’m sure there’s other places to hang out and find better, but to me I think the messaging is the bit that probably isn’t on point and needs some work to do that either. The novelty in a way kind of worries me because people aren’t doing this very much. You get life coaches that will deal with anybody or therapists that will help people who’ve been terminal or whatever, but as a kind of niche, this is, there’s not many people doing exactly this.
Patrick Willis: So the novelty, it’s kind of scary and maybe a bit of a problem in itself, but it’s the message that’s tied together, those two things about the getting in the trust and also building the desire that I think is where the gap is.
Yuri Elkaim: So here’s the tricky thing about this is that these three pillars all have to work in unison. It’s very much like if you were to open the face of a watch and you have the dials inside. If one of these dials was not working, the watch doesn’t work. So it’s really important that each of these three are all working in unison. Each one of these three have three activators, I call them client activators within each of them. So now you’ve got nine activators that even if one of them isn’t working properly, it’s almost like walking eight dogs in one direction with one dog pulling the opposite direction.
Patrick Willis: Yeah that makes sense.
Yuri Elkaim: So let’s look at these individually really quickly and look at where some of the opportunities might lie. Under market, the first thing we have to look at is single target market seeking a solution now. So you’ve, I think you’ve clarified who that market is, right? So I guess my follow up question, are these individuals consciously seeking a solution now to their dilemma?
Patrick Willis: Well, I think a good lot of them don’t even think there is a solution. So they are problem aware as opposed to solution aware.
Yuri Elkaim: So at least they’re aware of the problem, right?
Patrick Willis: Oh yeah. It’s something they face every day?
Yuri Elkaim: Sure, which is important and they actively probably want to solve it because they’re aware of it. They just maybe haven’t been exposed to how to do so. Is that about right?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, I think that’s fair.
Yuri Elkaim: Okay, so let’s give that a check mark. Second piece in the market is they have a major pain or problem that they want solved.
Patrick Willis: I think that’s a big tick.
Yuri Elkaim: Yeah, I’d say so and then third thing is that you plan to dominate that space because I think it’s really, it’s a lot easier when you can be the authority in the space and I think obviously you’re doing something that very few other people are doing. So we’ll put a check on that. So under message, there’s three things, if clear, vivid, and empathetic. These are the three activators on our message and honestly this is probably where most people can start to make things more powerful. So if we look at your opt in page. So if we look at the message here, I just wrote this down, the four things to drop your anchor and find your feet roughly, that’s what you mentioned, right?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah. There’s been a few variations of the page and I’ve been just gradually, just gradually getting a little bit more option through tweaking the dial.
Yuri Elkaim: I think the wording is clever, but I want to tie in magic to message here because I think they work really closely together here. So under magic, we have a tangible results. So, even if it’s a free lead magnet, there’s going to be a tangible result. It needs to be highly desirable and there needs to be a big idea and the big idea is something that is new, different or polarizing. Something that is going to get them to be like, “Holy cow, I’ve never heard of this before.” Otherwise it’s the same as everything else. If we look at the opt in page, so the fourth thing is to do, or to drop your anchor and find your feet. Do you find that to be a tangible results and highly desirable?
Patrick Willis: So it’s definitely tangible. It probably could do the… I made it tangible. I’ve said, “You can get results in 10 minutes.” If they look at the, the subhead says things like that that you can get results in 10 minutes.
Yuri Elkaim: So let me ask in a different way. How do you measure that? How do you measure? So when we say tangible, it’s got to be quantifiable and something you can measure. So how can we measure that?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, that’s a good shout. I mean in essence the steps, step one on this journey with people is kind of getting them to, rather than lock themselves in a darkened room for two weeks feeling totally numb, it’s to be out there starting to make the most of the rest of their life and figuring out it’s not over. So probably painting a picture around that. I mean I’ve heard others talk about the idea of landing the plane don’t keep it at 30,000 feet to be really tangible. I like that area, that’s a good point and I probably don’t do that as well as I could.
Yuri Elkaim: This is honestly probably one of the biggest opportunities for most businesses where they put something out and they’re like, “Hey, why isn’t it working?” Well let’s have a look at the offer. Oh, it’s improve your wellness. What does that mean? Right? How do you define that? So there’s a big difference her between selling people what they want and giving them what they need. Now in this case, we’re not selling anything. We’re giving them obviously a free thing, but let’s just call it selling for a second. Anytime someone’s going to opt in or buy something that’s essentially a sale in some way, shape or form.
Patrick Willis: Absolutely.
Yuri Elkaim: So if we tie this into a clear message, a tangible results mean something they can quantify. They can step on the scale. They can look in the mirror. They can measure it, something. Now, clarity ties in with that because the more tangible the magic is, the more clear the message becomes.
Patrick Willis: Absolutely, yeah.
Yuri Elkaim: So part of the process of marketing is thinking about, I have this outcome. So if you were to, okay let’s think big picture for a second. When clients work with you, what is the outcome that you help them achieve?
Patrick Willis: If we’re talking about the ultimate outcome, the ultimate outcome is just that they, their last months or years of life, they’re not in survival mode. They’re actually thriving. They’re making a difference in the world. They’re living a tangible legacy for their family. They’re leaving peace and joy rather than trauma behind them. Now I know that’s all emotional stuff and you kind of have to turn that into, well what does that look like in practice I guess.
Yuri Elkaim: So it’s almost if I were to sum that up is making your life post diagnosis or do they all know that they’re going to be, that they’d have an expiration date?
Patrick Willis: Nobody ever knows. That’s the problem. Nobody ever knows. You can go to doctor, they say, “You have three months to live,” and five years later you’re still alive. It’s one of those things that, there’s a lot of gray edges on that. So that’s the thing.
Yuri Elkaim: So the idea almost is how to, something along the lines of how to make your life even better after diagnosis in some way, shape or form.
Patrick Willis: Yeah, exactly, yeah. And there’s lots of components to that. A lot of that there is about, you’re not arguing with your loved one. You’re on the same page as them. Your kids feel supported. There’s a whole bunch of stuff around that. Around to not dying in horrible stressful situations at the hospital when you can have some much better outcome dying at home, even doing something simple like that.
Yuri Elkaim: Sure. So if we looked at the, if we looked at the top three frustrations or fears that these potential clients are experiencing or worried about, what might those be?
Patrick Willis: So the biggest frustration or fear is, “Holy crap, my life is over. I’ve got nothing. I’ve got nothing to look forward to. I’m going to spiral down through medical treatment until I die.”
Yuri Elkaim: So they’re going to be dependent upon drugs, medical treatments for-
Patrick Willis: And they can’t see beyond that. All they can see is the, this is it. It’s all I’ve got. The second why is going to be like, “Well, how’s my wife, husband, kids going to cope?” There’s a big one around the often finances is another big one. “How are we going to pay the bills?”
Yuri Elkaim: Mm-hm. Anything else?
Patrick Willis: So there’s, I mean that there’s… The other one they go through really is best way to describe it is they wake up in the morning and suddenly remember, “Oh shit is happening to me.” Sorry. You can edit that out.
Yuri Elkaim: No, it’s all good. It’s all good. We curse sometimes on the show.
Patrick Willis: “This is happening to me,” and it’s anger that they aren’t getting to do what they want to do. It’s frustration. It’s guilt. They should have done things differently. It’s an annoyance that they lived a really good lifestyle and it can still happen. It’s this constant roller coaster of emotions that just gets in their way of doing anything.
Yuri Elkaim: What about desires or wants? What are some things? What are some immediate wants or desires that they have?
Patrick Willis: So again, the biggest usually is how do I best look after my family in whatever shape or form that is? Might just be a spouse or it might be kids and so forth, but that’s normally that’s the biggest desire. I mean the obvious one which is, “My God, I want to live.” That’s the biggest one.
Yuri Elkaim: That’s a good one.
Patrick Willis: You know, “I want to live. Thank you very much. I don’t want to die.”
Yuri Elkaim: So they’re motivated out of their mind to do whatever they have to do? Get on the green juices, infrared saunas, whatever they have to do to-
Patrick Willis: Yeah, and all the stuff that most of the time won’t help them at all, but they’ll still do it.
Yuri Elkaim: If we think of, so let’s say that they’re able to do stuff that allows them to extend their life for another 20 years. What does that look like? If they were to, so a want is something that they want relatively immediately and aspiration is something that’s more longer term.
Patrick Willis: Good shout, yeah.
Yuri Elkaim: So they want to live. Why? Why do they want to live and what are they going to do with that life now? That’d be an aspiration. What are maybe one or two things there that we can-
Patrick Willis: Let’s talk about that a little bit. It’s interesting really, because I think when people are in that situation, they can rarely see beyond the immediate situation. So survival is top of mind. It’s the old kind of chimp lizard brain stuff. It’s survival. It’s top of mind. That’s really where it’s at. There is a huge opportunity here that people tend not to see. People don’t see it, but it’s there, which is for the people who go through it and deal with it well, they suddenly have this very different perspective on life and a very different view as to what’s really important. All that sort of annoying crap and trivia really doesn’t matter anymore, really doesn’t. And the people that come through very frequently take a new perspective.
Patrick Willis: Actually, Steve Jobs, I think he quoted this. He said “The biggest gift of him being diagnosed with the,” I think it was cancer he had, wasn’t it? “The biggest gift of that was helping him stop and think what’s really important.”
Yuri Elkaim: Sorry, I just kind of put that down as a sub bullet because it’s almost, I don’t think people really aspire to want that.
Patrick Willis: No, they really don’t. It’s a side benefit almost. Again, people’s individual aspirations are very, very different really. Again, the aspirations vary as to what the person’s about, what matters to them. What this will have given is a huge opportunity and perspective to recognize what matters to them that they didn’t have before.
Yuri Elkaim: Yeah, which is a great.
Patrick Willis: As a coach normally, you have to spend a lot of time teasing it out to people.
Yuri Elkaim: “So now you tell me what’s important to you and now that you’ve survived this, what do you want to do with the rest of your life?” and now a whole new world of possibilities opens.
Patrick Willis: Absolutely.
Yuri Elkaim: So we and sometimes it’s tough for people who haven’t experienced that to recognize that, but once they’re in it, to be able to see like, “Hey man, I’ve wanted to travel here and I wanted to take care of my family in this way.” That becomes interesting. When you’re thinking of aspirations and the reason we talk about this is because aspirations, is very closely tied with vision. So if you have vision for your life, that’s more of an aspiration than “Here’s something I want tomorrow,” and I think if you can juggle both of like, “Okay, listen. You just got diagnosed. Here’s how we’re going to survive today and tomorrow and the next 30 days and if all works out well, we’re going to give you another 10, 20 years of life. Well, what are you going to do with those 20 years?”
Yuri Elkaim: “Imagine being able to do all this stuff that you’ve put on the back burner for so long to now really live in the life you’ve always desired,” and so when we’re talking about message and we want to be able to paint a picture where we meet people where they’re at, the conversation in their minds. We’re able to, again, empathetically understand what they’re going through, but then share-
Patrick Willis: Yuri, I know this and this is tricky because I can’t say “I’m in your shoes.” I can do a lot of, “Yeah, I’ve talked to people who are like this,” and so forth and whatever, but the empathy is a tricky balance here.
Yuri Elkaim: Sure, so you’ve worked with clients who’ve gone through this, right?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah.
Yuri Elkaim: And that’s all that matters because it’s not that you’ve gone through this, but you’ve worked with clients who have and you’ve felt what they felt to some degree and you empathize with their situation.
Patrick Willis: Absolutely.
Yuri Elkaim: And that’s partly, probably why you do what you do. I lost my hair when I was 17 years old, but I ended up helping people lose weight for almost 20 years and I’ve never had a weight issue, but I understood the emotion of what it felt like when you don’t feel like yourself and so empathy means you just understand what they’re going and they feel understood by you. It doesn’t mean you have to have walked in their shoes. So if we look at fears, frustrations, wants and aspirations, this starts to tie into tangible results and something that’s highly desirable. What you, I think just that I got emotionally here, is that the number one thing you said that people really wants is how to best look after their family.
Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah.
Yuri Elkaim: Other than surviving.
Patrick Willis: Other than surviving, which again is largely out of their control.
Yuri Elkaim: So here is my, and again it depends on if this is something like do you feel confident that you can help someone in this first area?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, absolutely.
Yuri Elkaim: Yeah?
Patrick Willis: Absolutely yeah.
Yuri Elkaim: Perfect. So based on that, I would change the angle of what I’m offering the markets to what their most desired thing is. So for instance, and honestly maybe the lead magnet itself is the same and nothing has to change other than the title of it and it’s-
Patrick Willis: Mm, because actually the lead magnet bag is very much about them and really it might need to be about others.
Yuri Elkaim: Yeah, because we’ll always do more for others than we will for ourselves, especially in this situation.
Patrick Willis: My thinking was, and again perhaps it’s faulty, is that this well I don’t, but again, this is me thinking about the need really, which is they need to do that first.
Yuri Elkaim: Exactly.
Patrick Willis: It’s like you’ve got to put your own oxygen mask before you can help somebody else, but what you really want to do is help-
Yuri Elkaim: We coaches are all the same. We’re always like, “Here’s what you need to do.” You’re like, “I don’t care. I just want this thing instead.” So like with our clients, we spend a lot of time working on mindset. Overcoming self-doubt, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but if I were to sell that on the front end, no one’s like, “I don’t want that stuff. I just want more clout.”
Patrick Willis: I hear you Yuri, thank you. That’s helpful.
Patrick’s New And Improve Marketing Message
Yuri Elkaim: So here’s what I would suggest and obviously the numbers don’t lie. It’s 5% opt in. So I would suggest creating or tweaking your existing lead magnet to something along the lines of how to best look after your family after diagnosis or my wife actually came up with a term a couple of years ago called surviving the bomb. Surviving the bomb, which means the bomb just got dropped. How do you survive it? How do you help your client? Sorry, how do you help your family thrive after you’ve been diagnosed? And build it around that so that you have a step by step guide or a checklist or something that is going to give them, if I’m traveling for a couple of months I’m going to have a checklist of things I need to make sure I check off.
Yuri Elkaim: Maybe that lead magnet is going to address some of those things to help that person take care of their family and messages that you then segue into “Listen, your family’s one thing, but what if you could stay around for longer? What if you be around longer than maybe the doctors have told you? Well, if that’s of interest to you, obviously we can show you how to survive. Not just survive this diagnosis and prognosis but extend it and live a longer life and if that’s of interest to you, then book a call. Let’s chat. Let’s figure out a game plan,” and that’s what I would do to initially offer that initial lead magnet and then segue people into booking a call with you.
Patrick Willis: Yeah, that’s a good shout.
Yuri Elkaim: So what makes the most, what has made the most sense from this conversation for you so far?
Patrick Willis: I think for me it, again it’s a, and I’m familiar with a lot of the material you’ve shared, but again sometimes you just need someone to challenge you on what the detail is, what it looks like and I think really by encouraging me to kind of almost land the plane on the, on what really matters here and again, it’s about the family I think. I think you’re right. So focusing on that, which is again what they want and they can see wanting to see, they want top of mind rather than something I know they need, which I just slapped myself every time I do it. Still do it.
Yuri Elkaim: It’s all good. We learn. We fail forward fast and that’s how you get better. So Patrick, has this been helpful?
Patrick Willis: Yeah, thank you Yuri. That’s great. I’m going to revamp this lead magnet this afternoon and I’ll keep you posted how it goes if you’re interested.
Yuri Elkaim: Keep us posted. Let us know how it goes and I have a good feeling that it’s going to convert better than 5%. Patrick, thanks so much for taking the time.
Patrick Willis: Thank you.
Yuri Elkaim: Keep us posted inside of the Facebook group. If you’re not, I’ll send you a link for how you can jump in there.
Patrick Willis: I’m pretty sure I’m in it, but I’ll check.
Yuri Elkaim: Thanks so much for your time and trouble and listening. Hope you guys have enjoyed this one and we’ll see you in the next episode.
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